[ntp:hackers] ntp and isc.org

Harlan Stenn stenn at www.ntp.org
Mon Nov 3 01:12:47 PST 2003


You wrote:


 I have no idea what "my team" has in mind, unless it is taking you up on
 your offer to provide cycles. I'm trying to get out of the distribution
 and maintenance business but stay in the R&D business and it's proving
 very hard.

[My goals are:

- Find a way to get you in to the R&D role you want to be in
- Make sure you have the support you need from us
- Make sure that we have sufficient infrastructure so that
- - we can handle as much of the user and developer support as possible
- - you can direct user and developer support questions to us

Additionally, I would prefer that:

- we move ntp.org (email, web, ftp, etc) from udel to isc
- continue to use the backroom and campus flock (to the extent you permit)
  for validation and testing purposes.


 I have a bunch of different architectures here for test, including
 SunOS, Solaris, Alpha 4 and 5, HP-UX, Ultrix, FreeBSD and Linux. The
 guys want more, including AIX and who knows what else. Keeping the
 existing claptrap going in the face of bolts, lack of expert help and
 distraction from other things I am paid to do is a chore, especially now
 that John has departed for grad school at Penn State. Since the bolt and
 then Isabel I've done not much else but fix machines, restore fried data
 and design and populate archive schemes.

[To continue from my points above as well as what Paul said below, I'd be
happy to use whatever iron you want to maintain for validation, testing,
and/or development purposes.  If you have hardware that you no longer want
to maintain, I gather that the ISC is apparently willing and able to
maintain it for use by the crew.


 The Corps and I have explored several schemes to split up the
 maintenance and R&D and web chores, but nothing seems to work well.

[If you are serious in your desire to focus on R&D I believe we can
implement this.


 Right now the development and stable versions live on whimsy at the
 backroom site (my home) with occasional transport via ISDN to campus and
 web. Harlan does the bulk of bugfixes, deploys build schemes and manages
 the repository, for which I and the Corps are profoundly greatful. Once
 in a while kind souls like Danny and the IPv6 guys come calling and test
 things, but mostly it's me doing little incremental things and testing
 and Harlan doing bugfix. I stay completely out of the webdudes territory
 other than to require unpopular mail procedures consistent with our
 department and campus procedures.

[On this last point, this is why I'd like to get email and web away from
UDel - it will eliminate that stress from you and us.


 What I am encouraging the Corps to explore is finding warm places to
 squat architectures other than we keep here. And, I would like to stand
 down Ultrix, HP-UX and Alpha 4. I get Solaris support from staff here
 and Alpha 5 by HP, FreeBSD by the Corps. John keeps a Linux box here,
 but we don't admit it exists. The Corps wants to build and test in
 various other architectures and operating systems, one or more of which
 you might happen to have handy.

[I will mention it again just to cover all of the points as they are raised.
I believe ISC would be willing to house the Ultrix, HP-UX, and Alpha 4 boxes,
but Paul would have the say on that one.  There might be a better way to
get access to those platforms for build and test purposes.


 If a phone call helps, call my office 302 831 8247 Tues/Wed/Thur
 1200-1500 local. On Mon/Fri and if no answer, call home 302 737 9212. 


and Paul responded:

 dave, et al,

 first off, can i be added to the hackers at ntp.org mailing list?

[I believe this has happened, right?


 second, my thoughts about what isc can offer.  we have space, power, sysadmin,
 bandwidth and we can host any iron that is otherwise homeless.  we can host
 content on our existing web/ftp servers, we can host IPR under our corporate
 name (see www.opendarwin.org to see how apple used this).  a structure whereby
 the publication, user support, release engineering, mailing list / newsgroups,
 and "core team" all came to isc either under the isc name or under a new 501c3
 entity incorporated as "NTP Association" would work fine.

[I spoke with Paul and it is not necessary that we make an "official"
entity for ntp.org for the rest of the project to "get space" at isc.]

 you (dave) can do
 backend R&D and we (hackers + isc) can do frontend release/support work.  UDel
 would only have the responsibility of supporting you and your R&D work, and
 everything else would become community-based and UDel-independent.

 i don't know if a telephone call is better than e-mail for further discussion.


Anybody, are there other questions or issues that need to be covered?

Can/should we do this move?


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