[ntp:hackers] Re: ntp and isc.org

David L. Mills mills at udel.edu
Mon Nov 3 09:58:17 PST 2003


Pardon the delayed response; I've been overwhelmed by lightning and
hurricanes and rotten power here.

I am somewhat anal retentive on the ntp.org domain; I paid for it ex
pocket, am listed as RP and the department and campus run the DNS for
it. When I wrote RFC-904 two decades ago I took real heat on my
definition of autonomous system, which is a managed set of gateways
together with only one required management capability: a management
order to turn something off cannot be overruled. Same with the NTP
domain. So, the domain ntp.org and maccarony.ntp.org remain here. I have
no trouble at all if links there point elsewhere or if ntp.isc.org
springs up elsewhere.

I need iron for testing here, especially things like distributed
discovery and security protocols. I need support for Solaris, SunOS and
FreeBSD. I have software support from HP for the Alpha, so need to keep
that running as well. The Ultrix and HP-UX can go, but as long as they
spin here without diddling some thing or other, they can stay. John's
Linux box stays only because it is the console multiplexor for several
machines of the herd. As evident previous messages, I have taken great
pains to keep the backroom stable, viable and reliable for my own
purposes and prefer to keep the development version there.


Harlan Stenn wrote:
> Dave,
> You wrote:
>  Paul,
>  I have no idea what "my team" has in mind, unless it is taking you up on
>  your offer to provide cycles. I'm trying to get out of the distribution
>  and maintenance business but stay in the R&D business and it's proving
>  very hard.
> [My goals are:
> - Find a way to get you in to the R&D role you want to be in
> - Make sure you have the support you need from us
> - Make sure that we have sufficient infrastructure so that
> - - we can handle as much of the user and developer support as possible
> - - you can direct user and developer support questions to us
> Additionally, I would prefer that:
> - we move ntp.org (email, web, ftp, etc) from udel to isc
> - continue to use the backroom and campus flock (to the extent you permit)
>   for validation and testing purposes.
> H]
>  I have a bunch of different architectures here for test, including
>  SunOS, Solaris, Alpha 4 and 5, HP-UX, Ultrix, FreeBSD and Linux. The
>  guys want more, including AIX and who knows what else. Keeping the
>  existing claptrap going in the face of bolts, lack of expert help and
>  distraction from other things I am paid to do is a chore, especially now
>  that John has departed for grad school at Penn State. Since the bolt and
>  then Isabel I've done not much else but fix machines, restore fried data
>  and design and populate archive schemes.
> [To continue from my points above as well as what Paul said below, I'd be
> happy to use whatever iron you want to maintain for validation, testing,
> and/or development purposes.  If you have hardware that you no longer want
> to maintain, I gather that the ISC is apparently willing and able to
> maintain it for use by the crew.
> H]
>  The Corps and I have explored several schemes to split up the
>  maintenance and R&D and web chores, but nothing seems to work well.
> [If you are serious in your desire to focus on R&D I believe we can
> implement this.
> H]
>  Right now the development and stable versions live on whimsy at the
>  backroom site (my home) with occasional transport via ISDN to campus and
>  web. Harlan does the bulk of bugfixes, deploys build schemes and manages
>  the repository, for which I and the Corps are profoundly greatful. Once
>  in a while kind souls like Danny and the IPv6 guys come calling and test
>  things, but mostly it's me doing little incremental things and testing
>  and Harlan doing bugfix. I stay completely out of the webdudes territory
>  other than to require unpopular mail procedures consistent with our
>  department and campus procedures.
> [On this last point, this is why I'd like to get email and web away from
> UDel - it will eliminate that stress from you and us.
> H]
>  What I am encouraging the Corps to explore is finding warm places to
>  squat architectures other than we keep here. And, I would like to stand
>  down Ultrix, HP-UX and Alpha 4. I get Solaris support from staff here
>  and Alpha 5 by HP, FreeBSD by the Corps. John keeps a Linux box here,
>  but we don't admit it exists. The Corps wants to build and test in
>  various other architectures and operating systems, one or more of which
>  you might happen to have handy.
> [I will mention it again just to cover all of the points as they are raised.
> I believe ISC would be willing to house the Ultrix, HP-UX, and Alpha 4 boxes,
> but Paul would have the say on that one.  There might be a better way to
> get access to those platforms for build and test purposes.
> H]
>  If a phone call helps, call my office 302 831 8247 Tues/Wed/Thur
>  1200-1500 local. On Mon/Fri and if no answer, call home 302 737 9212.
>  Dave
> and Paul responded:
>  dave, et al,
>  first off, can i be added to the hackers at ntp.org mailing list?
> [I believe this has happened, right?
> H]
>  second, my thoughts about what isc can offer.  we have space, power, sysadmin,
>  bandwidth and we can host any iron that is otherwise homeless.  we can host
>  content on our existing web/ftp servers, we can host IPR under our corporate
>  name (see www.opendarwin.org to see how apple used this).  a structure whereby
>  the publication, user support, release engineering, mailing list / newsgroups,
>  and "core team" all came to isc either under the isc name or under a new 501c3
>  entity incorporated as "NTP Association" would work fine.
> [I spoke with Paul and it is not necessary that we make an "official"
> entity for ntp.org for the rest of the project to "get space" at isc.]
>  you (dave) can do
>  backend R&D and we (hackers + isc) can do frontend release/support work.  UDel
>  would only have the responsibility of supporting you and your R&D work, and
>  everything else would become community-based and UDel-independent.
>  i don't know if a telephone call is better than e-mail for further discussion.
>  paul
> Anybody, are there other questions or issues that need to be covered?
> Can/should we do this move?
> H

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