[ntp:hackers] Cool new stuff

David L. Mills mills at udel.edu
Mon Jul 24 02:36:20 UTC 2006


Who owns the Internet? That question was posed in the ICCB 25 years ago 
and we decided the Internet has no owner, no laws, no lawyers and no 
police force.

As a practical matter, the NTP code base starts from here and is not 
":checked in" the ISC. The developer corps at the ISC and elsewhere 
fixes it up, hands it out and keeps it running. Beyond that, I like the 
Internet model, especially the lawyers part.


todd glassey wrote:

> Unfortunately Dave its not quite that easy its not just the republication
> rights that are at play here especially for the commercial players. The
> Copyright/Use License also pertains to derivative implementations as well
> one would think including the code-base that is checked into the ISC. So
> the question is - who actually owns the code the ISC and this 
> collective are
> working on? - You - UDel? those collective Sponsor's
> Sorry to be the IP guy but...
> Todd
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David L. Mills" <mills at udel.edu>
> To: <hackers at ntp.org>
> Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 12:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [ntp:hackers] Cool new stuff
>> Paul,
>> Read my lips very carefully. I have said nothing about licensing. I
>> don't care about licensing. All I care about is the IBM lawyer who
>> showed up in my office demanding I sign a release specific to IBM and I
>> would not do that. If Sun and HP and IBM and everybody else on the
>> planet can guarantee hassle-free use of any code, then I and UDel have
>> no problem with that.
>> There is no question about ownership here and I really would like to
>> spare further discussion on that issue. You will note the copyright page
>> says nogthing about licensing, only copyright. How about the IBM lawyer?
>> How about the embedded products like my Xerox printer and Symmetricom
>> GPS servers? If none of these guys has any problem, then I and UDel
>> don't either. Finally, note I and UDel don't own anything, just the
>> copyright notice asserting authorship of various parties.
>> Dave
>> Paul Vixie wrote:
>>>> If not, this makes vendors such as Sun and HP and
>>>> Symmetricom mighty nervous.
>>> sun and hp have already imported isc/lib/log.c (and eventlib) and vetted
>>> the license. but if that's a problem, feel free to fork the code, and
>>> will send UDel a letter donating a copy of the source without its
> license,
>>> so that UDel can own its own copy.
>>> let's be done, for once and for all time, with any concern about
> licensing
>>> of ISC code for use in NTP. we're wasting time and missing
> opportunities.
>>> i am particularly upset since my use of and work on NTP predates my use
> of
>>> and work on BIND, and my inspiration to use a BSD-derived license on all
>>> of my work (and later, all of ISC's work) came from my appreciation of
>>> and the license it used. dr. mills, every time you complain about ISC's
>>> license, it feels like i somehow missed the point of your work, and i do
>>> not think that i have. i am one of your followers. stop yelling at me
>>> for trying to follow in your footsteps.
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