[ntp:security] [Bug 1331] DoS with mode 7 packets (CVE-2009-3563)

Danny Mayer mayer at ntp.org
Wed Oct 7 12:12:52 UTC 2009


Dave Hart wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 3:47 AM, Danny Mayer <mayer at ntp.org> wrote:
>> Dave Hart via the NTP Bugzilla wrote:
>>> Danny, I agree it is important to keep the patch simple and focused. Â If you
>>> compare my proposed patch with yours I think you'll see mine is simpler. Â It
>>> does not split the early sanity checks into two parts, it does not rearrange the
>>> order of the tests, and thereby the meaning of the logged test numbers.
>>>
>> Your changes are very different and do not differentiate between attack
>> and error.
> 
> Very different from your patch, yes, but less different from the
> original code, which is how I define simpler.
> 
>> The break is intentional and not accidental and is definitely simpler.
> 
> Making a judgement call about which ones to drop and never log vs
> which to reply to and log without rate limits is subject to mistake,
> such as your initial mistake where your patch responded with an error
> to error responses.  It is simpler and safer to drop all malformed
> mode 7 packets and not try to be clever about which ones it's safe to
> respond to.  There is no value in the response that I see.

Then you haven't been reading my code which I updated last night nor do
you understand what all of the tests are. Not all of the tests are bad
packets. Two of the tests are legitimate to check the version for
compatibility between ntpdc and the version of ntpd receiving the
packets. There is not expected to be interoperatibility between versions
and those get rejected.

> 
>> You are adding additional complexity that is unnecessary using
>> constructs that may not exist in earlier code. In fact they certainly
>> don't in xntp 3 and I need to keep that in mind when issuing the fix.
> 
> The rate-limited msyslog approach is nothing new, and if someone wants
> to backport the fix and finds NLOG() unavailable in their ntpd, they
> can omit that line or omit the logging entirely.
> 

Yes, the can but it needs to be carefully considered before rushing to
judgement.

>>> What it does do is keep to the ntpd practice in mode 6 and mainline processing
>>> of dropping malformed packets without a peep in responses, and add rate-limiting
>>> code to ensure the msyslog triggered by the big if statement happens no more
>>> than once per minute.
>>>
>>> I stand by my proposed patch as a simpler, more focused fix and one that brings
>>> mode 7 handling in line with other packet input code paths in ntpd.
>>>
>> We can align code later but now is not the time.
> 
> We have plenty of time before any public announcement, assuming leaks
> are avoided.  There is no need to rush to judgement on which patch to
> use.

When it comes to security fixes there is never enough time. There is no
competition on which patch to use. You don't get any points for
duplicating the work that I have been doing.

> 
>> No you are adding unnecessary complexity and I did look at your code.
>> Adding a bunch of additional code for logging purposes only is not
>> simpler. It begs the question of what is going to get logged and you
>> have not mapped out all the scenarios involved. The only other thing you
>> did was to drop ALL packets that fail the tests.
> 
> Why do you think it's important to reply to packets with the MORE bit
> set but not to packets with the RESPONSE bit set?  Neither one is
> valid in a query.  Mode 6 drops both, mode 7 should as well.
> 

You didn't see yesterday's update to my repository.

>> You are overcomplicating the matter which involves a simple issue which
>> I have fixed. Can we drop this please?
> 
> Again I say my patch is simpler and more focused on the vulnerability,
> namely, responding to responses.

You need to look again at your own code if that's what you think. It's
doing more than that.

  The rate-limiting addition to the
> msyslog is needed if we are to retain any logging of queries with the
> response bit lit, due to the possibility there will be a flood of
> them, particularly in the broadcast/multicast scenario.
> 

Yes, but leave this to me instead of constantly interfering.

Danny

> Cheers,
> Dave Hart
> 
> 


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